tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post3221420704714396806..comments2023-05-07T14:10:45.257+01:00Comments on Religion, Philosophy & Ethics at the University of Gloucestershire: Defining SportDavid W...http://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-37623376163648190682012-01-19T10:18:21.188+00:002012-01-19T10:18:21.188+00:00I thought this was very interesting, and personall...I thought this was very interesting, and personally feel that the answer resides in our definitions of 'games' and 'sports'.<br /><br />It is commonly announced that when people wish to play football they say, "would you like to play a GAME of football?"... and then in another instance could say "would you like to play football?". <br /><br />Now the first instance suggests that the level of football here will be played within the written rules with self-officiating players. If I was asked this way I would reply with "is it a proper game?" indicating the need to clarify that it is as per the rules, or is a variation of the game. The second appears to be less formal, and in being this way portrays an image of variation. Therefore we could say that the SPORT is the pure and original form of the GAME, whilst the latter is a Variation. If this is the case I would suggest that a game of headers and volleys is simply a game within the game of football. It's almost a micro-coaching differentiation tool to focus on particular aspects of the sport.<br /><br />So you could say that 'Football' is the SPORT- of which is termed, 'The purest/original form of the GAME of football - and that GAMES of Football should be representative of the SPORT in all of its rules and so forth. <br /><br /><br />Annnndddddd I think I have confused myself!.....d.warburtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16328102183861089897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-71719174799305948342007-01-11T09:39:00.000+00:002007-01-11T09:39:00.000+00:00Another e-mailed comment, this times from Paul J (...<i> Another e-mailed comment, this times from Paul J (of Cornwall): </i><br /><br />Are there any games competed in at the Olympic Games, or is it rather a collection of sporting events?<br />Maybe this definition is difficult to achieve because so many activities have been mis-defined, and the terms used in the wrong manner in the first<br />place- ie darts/pool/hunting foxes as 'sports' (not sure if killing defenceless animals is game or sport??!) and 'a game of' football, cricket, tennis etc.<br /><br />Generally if i refer to big team events i call it 'a football match', if 3 of us are kicking a ball around its 'a game of football'.<br /><br />Where oh where does skateboarding fit in? all I know is its not a crime...<br />Is there such a thing as an 'X-treme Game'? (Chicken with a truck?)<br /><br />And where does video gaming fit into these definitions? It demands physical skill (hand-eye co-ordination), a definate set of goals utterly inefficiently<br />achieved, as well as practice, officiated competition and institutional organisation<br />(rankings, sponsership etc) - does this make sitting hunched over a keyboard eating cold pizza and zapping hell-spawned demons a sport? Well if darts is then I should think so..<br /><br />Maybe computer games are a sport if you're playing Pro Evo Soccer!<br />I think the drunk fat bloke definition could be the answer we're all looking for......<br /><br />Facetious but in deference to the seriousness of the debate, pjDavid W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-14474030669889197322007-01-10T16:40:00.000+00:002007-01-10T16:40:00.000+00:00An e-mailer who wanted to remain anonymous writes:...An e-mailer who wanted to remain anonymous writes:<br /><br /><i><br />I do not think it is (large quantities of) physical exercise that is necessary- sports vary from the purely physical (varying from power to cardiovascular)to mainly skill sports with varying degrees of fitness but always muscular control (darts, snooker, curling, shooting etc) to the purely mentally skillfull (bridge, chess). then of course there is varying aspects of teamwork.<br /><br />I think the most important reason (apart from things as rules and wining or losing) to qualify as a sport is its institutionalisations and (international) recognition. which is why chess may be a sport, but other games not, and why the orignin of most sports are undoubltedly heavily first world dominated. so there may be an important social aspect to it, which may make it impossible to give a necessary/sufficient conditions analysis that does not include a social component.<br /><br />I think physical exercise is neither necessary nor sufficient.</i>David W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-18471170305937046892007-01-10T08:10:00.000+00:002007-01-10T08:10:00.000+00:00An e-mailed comment from Sarah Honeychurch:
Who ...<i>An e-mailed comment from Sarah Honeychurch: </i><br /><br />Who encourages you to define your concepts in terms of necessary and sufficient conditions? Certainly not Wittgenstein. And Suits is just wrong, isn't he? Game playing is the selection of inefficient means? Surely the whole point of strategic games (chess, go) is not that the goals are harder to acheive than is necessary, but that there is a certain amount of skill involved, and that such games are only enjoyable because of this. It is not this that distinguishes games from work, either. Often work is done by what Suits would call a very inefficient way (often I choose a way of completing my work that is harder than is necessary - I read stuff I am going to use in the original and provide specific page references - I don't refer to ...erm ... Wittgenstein vaguely ..) My point, I guess, is that the rules of a game do not pose unnecessary obstacles, they are part of that game. That's what stops golf being a race to put the ball in the hole in the green and turns it into a skill. In fact, both games and work turn out to have a similarity when compared thus - those who care about the end and not the means will cheat, and the rest of us don't.David W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-16232746654540870762007-01-08T23:42:00.000+00:002007-01-08T23:42:00.000+00:00The brain is a physical thing, an organ, suseptibl...The brain is a physical thing, an organ, suseptible to nutrition and drugs like any other part of the body. Unless we are making a clear distinction between the brain and ' the mind', I find it difficult to accept an activity is a sport rather than a game because of physical exertion, when in my mind mental activities are physcial exertion also just in a different way.<br />To sum up, I would make no distinciton between sports/games based solely upon one using physical muscles such as biceps, and one using physcial musles such as the brain.jasonrpehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06225357679689486816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-8096130059572245812007-01-08T21:21:00.000+00:002007-01-08T21:21:00.000+00:00Another comment sent to me by e-mail (from Mohan M...<i>Another comment sent to me by e-mail (from Mohan Matthen of Toronto University) :</i><br /><br />I am not sure Suits has it exactly right.<br /><br />First, "completing an approved set of actions to a particular standard in the case of high board diving" doesn't strike me as "“a specific achievable state of affairs… that can be described before, or independently of, any game <br />of which it may be or become a part.” Describe <br />a dive -- Eg.: no splash, most graceful, even "best" -- it may lose. Winning a diving contest is a matter of being judged to have done the best<br />-- judged rather than determined or<br />measured. (Contrast this with races, where there really is an achievable state of affairs that can be described in advance, though it is often hard to determine whether someone has achieved it). I would classify diving as a sport, but not a game.<br /><br />Nor, I think, is "game playing . . the selection of inefficient means." Here's why:<br /><br />1. I have selected inefficient means to type this message -- I am typing over a pile of books because I can't be bothered to move them off my <br />table. But it's no game. Nor are arbitrary <br />inefficiencies needed -- golf isn't more of a game if you refuse to use titanium clubs.<br /><br />2. And in golf, it isn't that anybody SELECTS the<br />means: the game restricts them to those means. It isn't as if I WANT to put a ball in a hole (dumb), and select clubs as a way to do this (dumber). No, I want to play golf, and putting a ball in a hole is a part of that.<br /><br />This the goal should properly be specified as getting-around-the-course-in-fewest-strokes-following-the-rules-of-golf. <br />Once it is specified in this way, you see that players actually select the most efficient means<br />-- titanium clubs, kinetically advantageous swings etc.<br /><br />very best,<br /><br />Mohan<br />Mohan Matthen,<br />Canada Research Chair in Philosophy, Perception, and Communication University of TorontoDavid W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-69633309955540520062007-01-08T18:30:00.000+00:002007-01-08T18:30:00.000+00:00Mike S of Bristol writes (by e-mail):
My two penn...<i>Mike S of Bristol writes (by e-mail):</i><br /><br />My two penneth...<br /> <br />You have to be fit to play any sport at the highest level<br /> <br />Darts is a game of skill - that is all.<br /> <br />Bloody obvious if you ask me.David W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-50791551730575467352007-01-08T17:31:00.000+00:002007-01-08T17:31:00.000+00:00I think there is a level of physical skill in dart...I think there is a level of physical skill in darts (and bowling) that is quite distinct from mental skill games (like poker). In poker, it does not matter how scrappily you throw your cards down - as long as you have the winning hand.<br /><br />THe skill to throw the dart requires hand-eye control which is sophisticated. It reminds me of snooker/pool. Even if you are a great mathetician - who can see the exact angle which would lead to the ideal shot - having the physical skill to make that shot is another thing altogether.<br /><br />While it may be true that <i> "The games of ‘snap’ or ‘scissors, paper, stone’ for instance, are probably more physically demanding than darts "</i> - the differene is in this physical skill...<br /><br />I think...David W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36538074.post-7321437521299491572007-01-08T16:57:00.000+00:002007-01-08T16:57:00.000+00:00An e-mailed comment - thanks Tom:
Hi
Dont know ...An e-mailed comment - thanks Tom:<br /><br />Hi<br /> <br />Dont know if this is useful, but I once saw it said that if a fat guy could do it well drunk, it isnt a sport. This was initially directed at bowling, but seems to find a curious resonance with darts as well.<br /> <br />TomDavid W...https://www.blogger.com/profile/14620079005028926064noreply@blogger.com